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1 RoadWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 8:18:18am

Ah, government

2 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 8:32:48am

re: #1 RoadWarrior

Not exactly. The Port Authority is a bi-state public authority that owes its existence to patronage from both the NY and NJ governors (and Gov. Christie's latest choices for Port Authority positions have come under fire in the last couple of days). Yet, the Authority's actions aren't exactly answerable to anyone. For instance, the Port Authority doesn't have to comply with New York City building codes, though it claims that the new skyscrapers at the WTC exceed any such standards by a wide margin. It has its own police force, and kerfuffles over who should police the WTC have come up several times since 9/11.

3 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 8:42:29am

I wish they would finish it already. I know it doesn't make sense because it's a purely emotional reaction, but I feel like 9/11 won't really be over until the rebuilding is completed. *sigh*

4 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 8:53:14am

re: #2 lawhawk

Yet, the Authority's actions aren't exactly answerable to anyone. For instance, the Port Authority doesn't have to comply with New York City building codes, though it claims that the new skyscrapers at the WTC exceed any such standards by a wide margin. It has its own police force, and kerfuffles over who should police the WTC have come up several times since 9/11.

A lack of accountability is a the key. Biz or gov.

5 ProMayaLiberal  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 9:28:51am

re: #2 lawhawk

re: #3 CuriousLurker

re: #4 Rightwingconspirator

The Port Authority needs to hit with a Congressional Investigation. They have been horrifically incompetent at the WTC site. That offends me.

6 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 9:30:10am

re: #3 CuriousLurker

By my reckoning, construction at Ground Zero wont be over until at least 2017, but most likely 2018 or 2019. The PATH transit hub isn't expected until 2017, but cost overruns and delays are pushing that part of the project further behind. Full construction on 2 and 3 WTC are dependent on market conditions for real estate and landing tenants. The faster they land anchor tenants, the faster those buildings will be completed.

A recovering economy might tempt some businesses to relocate to the WTC complex, especially since it will be the most modern class A office space in the city, and rents would be lower than comparable space in Midtown. Some firms are considering those deals, but others are waiting to see if the space gets finished in a timely manner (plus there's competing office space in Hudson Yards expected to go on the market in the next few years).

The longer the construction takes, the more it eventually costs everyone involved.

7 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 9:36:18am

re: #6 lawhawk

So we're talking 17-18 years to completely rebuild.

That's insane. It's gross incompetence.

8 ProMayaLiberal  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 9:40:40am

re: #7 CuriousLurker

And why an investigation is needed.

9 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 9:55:44am

I don't think that an investigation is warranted because of the timeframe involved. It took nearly as long for the USS Arizona memorial to be designed and built at Pearl Harbor. And that was a far less complicated design/building/choice, than the Ground Zero construction effort, which involves building nearly 10 million sf of office space, a museum and memorial, plus a transit hub and connectors that will handle 50,000 plus on a daily basis. It's a really complicated build - and while that doesn't excuse everything, it does explain part of the reason for delays. If one part of construction gets delayed at an early stage, it affects everything else down the line.

When the Freedom Tower was first proposed, it had a different design (Libeskind's sloping tower). It was reworked (and the final design is by SOM, and other skyscrapers are now designed by Rogers, Foster, and Maki, the transit hub by Calatrava with the master plan based on the Libeskind plan). Then, the NYPD noted security concerns, and that forced the location to be shifted - affecting construction of adjacent components. That added time and cost to the project.

10 ProMayaLiberal  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 10:01:56am

re: #9 lawhawk

For 2 & 3 at least.

I read the Wired NY forums. I remember from back in 2007-2008ish about how the PA was being slow on excavation or something. By the time they were done, the developer couldn't get a loan for those two buildings.

Also, the dickery with the Little Church. The PA needs some sort of investigation.

11 ProMayaLiberal  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 10:17:31am

Because of the incompetence of the PANYNJ, WTCs 2 and 3 may never be built.

That is absolutely disgraceful. And that is why I want there to be a congressional investigation.

12 Flounder  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 10:24:06am

Now I gotta look up and find out how they built the Twin Towers. Sounds like we can't build massive projects anymore.

13 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 10:29:33am

re: #10 ProLifeLiberal

Yes, the Port Authority was dragging its feet and was actually forced to pay Silverstein $100,000 a day because it hadn't done the excavations by the contract date. They went over by more than a month if I recall correctly.

Only in the last couple of months did they come to agreement to build the platform on which the St. Nicholas Church will be rebuilt (it was obliterated by the collapsing South Tower, which damaged the Deutsche Bank building that once stood next to it as well).

The Port Authority delays on 2, 3, and 4 WTC have hampered the ability for Silverstein to rebuild. It cost him financing and terms at every step of the way, and the Port Authority essentially forced Silverstein out of the 1WTC process, even though Silverstein was able to rebuild 7WTC within short order and without the craziness of the rest of the site.

But since the site is owned by the Port Authority, they got to call the shots, and we're all paying for their delaying tactics (which aren't exactly explainable either). The agency had been trying to get out of the real estate business (when they signed the 99 year lease to Silverstein right before the 9/11 attacks). They've been trying to find a way back ever since - even though neither NY nor NJ wants them in the real estate business. That's the real mess here - they should be focusing on port development (air, rail, transhudson river travel, ports), not building an office complex (again).

14 dragonfire1981  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 10:31:11am

Your think if there was one project they might be able to get their shit together on it would be this one.

15 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 10:34:02am

re: #12 Shropshire_Slasher

The project was first conceived in the 1940s, and it ultimately took the Rockefellers and Chase Manhattan bank to finance the project based on the Minoru Yamasaki design starting in 1966. The Twin Towers were a white elephant from its completion in 1972-1974 (3-7 WTC came at different time periods thereafter), and didn't reach full occupancy until just before the attacks.

16 Flounder  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 10:45:35am

re: #15 lawhawk

Ah yes, I remember, still drafting by hand, a forgotten art I mastered long ago...

17 ProMayaLiberal  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:16:35am

re: #15 lawhawk

So why the flying fuck do we care about full occupancy now?

re: #13 lawhawk

So, not only does there need to be a congressional investigation, the PA must be banned from Office Property ventures.

18 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:47:16am

re: #17 ProLifeLiberal

That's been Silverstein's position when he was pushing to get the towers built. However, developers generally want to get tenants lined up. Building on spec happens very infrequently due to the up-front costs of building. Having major tenants lined up to take space helps sell more of that space to bring it up to full occupancy.

Silverstein happened to build 7WTC on spec without tenants lined up, and it's now at full occupancy. Yet, he couldn't move ahead on a project just a few blocks away because he couldn't find financing in the absence of anchor tenants. The PANY could have backstopped the financing while it was built - part of the Liberty Bonding after 9/11 for instance, but they've played hardball so the delays continue.

19 ProMayaLiberal  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 8:34:37pm

re: #18 lawhawk

This just reinforces my view that the PA are scum, and a congressional investigation is needed.


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